Quote from samjh :

It's perfectly possible to floor the throttle mid-corner in the BF1. You just have to set your TC to the appropriate setting (like in real F1 cars), around 2-3%.

Mind you, real F1 drivers usually set TC to more than 4% allowed slip. It is not uncommon to see F1 drivers spinning it despite TC. Unlike us mere mortals, they know how to take advantage of their cars' TC, while most LFS players probably just slam the throttle and hope for the best.

The TC in LFS is very good, although I certainly can't comment on how good it is compared to real F1 cars.

The tc of lfs is very simple, it just limits slip, at whatever speed the car is going and what the driver is doing. Very much like the first generations of traction control over 15 years ago. TC-systems are a lot better nowadays... Thats why it is good news they are banned from F1. They cost too much money, not the simple one like lfs or road going cars(1500 dollars max to install) but in order of 1000000+ dollars of development on top f1 teams each year excusive production costs. I assume such system will do a bit more then just limit slip according to a very strict setting.

Anyway, i hope someday tc will be banned from lfs too, but not before the tyre-heat problem is fixed.

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

Right tristan you seem to think that people have to have driven a F1 car in real life to be fast in them on a simulator which no-one i know who is fast has!

And just for you and ajp i spent an hour hotlapping before and managed to get a WR on keyboard beating the previous 1 by over a tenth with a setup that wasn't made for there. Just to show you it has nothing to do with the keyboard or me, still think im all over the place and slow ajp?.

The setup i was using for blackwood was a WR setup FOR patch Y which is the kind of setups i used to run with on patch X (WR setups).

Im ill with this thread it won't end.

It will get very difficult if scawen decides to turn of keyboard stabalizing

In the old days, digital was the only available input for home sim racers. It is very easy compared to analogue.

"n contrast a modern F1 car isn't setup or designed to be controlled with a lead weight on the throttle pedal,"

What??? F1 drivers are flooring it on twisty sections of the track. The tc handles it all! The tc is very unlike the one of lfs. On lfs it is nearly useless in midconers where real drivers can floor it. Because, the tc will handle everyting. However, most of us will still not be able to control such a car, because most of us are not strong enough to cope with the g-forces and/or get scared from the speed of an f1 car

Don' t try this in lfs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewTyxOaVpOc

Complte lap of F1 tc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... 62rnU&feature=related

Only reason to stay off the pedal is the understeer, because the tc won't allow any sliding of the rear, keeping the car in control, making it possible to use unstable setups and still have understeer.


altough i must add, the f1 tc feels a bit better, but still not as good as it was with real cars. But i never driven a real one

Last edited by Bluebird B B, Mon, 11 Feb 2008 21:30.

It mainly occurs if programsare running in the background, like firefox. Websites are full of flash ad' s and thinks like that. So having msn and firefox often means 3-5 programs in the background.

Note: The screen stays black. restart of lfs is needed.
Simple workaround, not changing from full screen to windowed and focus your life on sim racing (hmm wait there are more things in life )

Quote from Woz :

All it has let you see is that the physics have CHANGED between X & Y, nothing else. How can you tell which is realistic, you don't even know what realistic actually is!

I must say the old physics saved me from crashing me irl. In heavy rain avoiding an exhaust-pipe of a truck at 125km/h with lousy avon tyres on the car. How to cope with weight transfer is something i learned of lfs and the tyres of lfs are the same as avon shit*. So the old physics were already good, the new even better :headbang: But it is still not perfect which is impossible to achieve.

But on topic, keyboard control gives only a very rough impression of the speeds and capabilitys of a car. But i would like to see an server option to allow or disallow tc. The bf1 is great without the tc, although the tc is not very good it still gives an advantage which makes it very difficult to beat.

* not completly true, sportscar gt was also very good, but outdated

Hello all,

I still get sometimes the good old black screen bug when switchting from full screen to windowed mode and back to full screen.

system:
amd 6200 +x2
4 gbyte mem
ati HD 2900xt, 1920x1200x32bit colour@60Hz
nforce 590 "sli"
sound blaster x-fi
windows vista 64 bits, 100% up-to-date including the drivers

Problem also occured with some older versions of lfs on my "old "computer, which runs also different OS; windows 2000(nt 5.0). I tell this, to make sure nobody starts blamimg vista. I really hate microsoft, but i' m sure vista is not the cause of the problem.

Quote from DarkTimes :

Interestingly I had this problem for the first time yesterday, on South City Long in the FBM. I was going through the tight hair-pin where your speed drops very low, and I had an big stutter as someone joined, right as I was going over a bump. I ended up hitting the wall as I didn't have enough reaction time left to save the resulting slide.

I have the stutter back since patch.. don' t remember how long ago. Since patch Y it seems a bit worse.

Stutter from people leaving pits is still there and affecting racing.
Yesterday i nearly crashed because someone left pits.

Hopefully this will be fixed.

maybe an good idea if lfs just caches the new skins in memory during race? Avoiding disk i/o during race/driving?

I do have rather fast system, that is 100% absolutly sure not an issue. Athough installing an hardware raid controller with battery backup cache memory(for write caching) will fix the problem

Quote from samjh :

So the question is where does the excess aero coefficient come from?

If the FOX isn't based on the real FR 2.0, then I can understand the difference. It's just that the Wiki says that's what it's based on.

It could also be the tyres which generate way to much heat. At max pressure zero toe-in or out, they get hot just by driving straight. So much rolling resistance must have an influence on top speed. I estimate once this is corrected, top speed will increase 2-6 km/h for the fox.
Topspeed near 240km/h on normal track like kv national sounds a lot better

Quote from garph :

It might effect the server as you would be using some of your own bandwidth to upload to the skin to LFS world and thus leaving a little less for your connection between you and the game server.

If a few people were doing this all at the same time or if someone had a not so great connection it could effect the rest of the server, i.e. 1 or 2 people lagging out the rest of the server. But I dunno if it would really be that bad, probably not.

I'd still rather every use every bit of their bandwidth on the game though (also not using MSN, P2P, that kind of stuff), it's easy enough to just upload the skins as you do now.

hmm
2+mbit down and 500kbit/s upload connections are very common now. I have a cheap connection, 1mbit/s up, 4mbit/s down guaranteed, unlimited data usage.

I think it is not a problem to upload skins automaticily, it would be great i think.

Configarable limit on the speed to upload skins (1-25kbyte/s) and limit download speed of skins(1-80) would be great!

wishlist?

Quote from sinbad :

If you just turn the TC off in a car running a setup designed to work with TC, then it becomes very very difficult to even come close to TC enabled pace. I don't imagine the F1 teams have changed nothing else either though, to compensate for the lack of TC.

I've had it "drivable" but the fast setups don't use the TC for fun, and you have to compromise the outright speed to keep it manageable. If someone has a no-tc setup for the BF1 I'd be interested to try it. Remember driving it is one thing, driving it quick is quite another. I'd be impressed if someone can stay within 0.5s per minute of a TC enabled car. (oval doesn't count before someone says that)

The TC in lfs is not even close as being how good the tc on an real F1 one car was. The BF1 is therefore already usually setup for a very simple type of traction control and in corners feels like driving without TC. Real F1 drivers just floored it in corners, because the computers did all the work to keep the car on track. Making overtaking sometimes impossible.

However, totally without TC, the bf1 is also very good to drive. But If a track has slow corners with on exit of those slow corners a few big bumps, you don' t stand a chance againt cars with tc. I don't think any setup can fix that.

Quote from Stigpt :

thats cause in old formulas, they were bottoming out the susp via downforce, so it was way more gently than you crashing hard on that exit.
Plus, your not actually DAMAGING it. more like wearing the damper out, due to the extreme bang.leave it for qual and sprints, raise the car a tad for races.
Why do you think race sets sometimes are a tad higher?

Real Race-cars can handle it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQOUKHVydqc
full speed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... mqMqc&feature=related

" so it was way more gently than you crashing hard on that exit."
I dissagree, its a normal bottom out of a formula car. If it is a really big bump, raising the ride heigth a little would not help protect the car. Also ride heigth, springs, dampers ar already setup on the high side(but not extreme!)

Dampers do not break from bumps, they wear out faster. But...dampers last very long so wear out effect is not important unless you are doing 48+ hour races. A normal bottom-out does not give problems for the dampers in the real world.
The springs might break, but it is very difficult to do it. In real world it usually takes months or years of heavy loading or an production fault.


So for now i do have to raise the ride heigth and wait and see in the next patch

Quote from rjm1982 :

Actually, most race cars DON'T have smooth underbodies...they did for a bit, then they realized that's a terrible idea...remember the Mercedies and the other (Porsche, Jag? ... i forget) lifting off on a straight piece of track and doing backwards flips?

Open wheel cars still use smooth bottom plates, but thats's because the car's arent shaped like normal cars...which have a profile similar to a wing...and a smooth bottom promotes more airflow under the car, meaning air under is moving much faster than the air over the car...which is what gives a wing lift...all you have to do at that point it give it a positive angle of incidence (lift the nose just a bit) and you have a flying car...

Correct, thats why its a shame the front and rear ride height does not affect downforce. even with a bottom not completly flat, lifting the nose will still guarantee a take off with the bf1,fo8,fox and the gtr' s, because the bottom is always near flat, good enough at high speeds with nose up to get cars into the air. Thats also why all cars nowadays are setup with nose down, including normal road-cars. Every car suffers from this aerodynamic effect, because indeed the entire car can be described as a giant wing. Also you get ground-effect from low ride heights; allthough for low race-classes and road-going cars this effects are minimal but it is there.

I hope in the next patch aero effect of ride height will be present, it will mean the end of all current setups and a big move to more realistic setups, which will be all as low as possible(for faster race-classes) because of the aerodynamics.

Anyway on topic
I like the idea of better textures on bottom of the cars, gives just a bit better feel and look to lfs .

Quote from Stigpt :

its the dip after the long backstraight. As you come off the highway, your car bounces on the ground, on the left side. Raise your car a little bit, and it will stop.

I have never seen a formula car getting damage from bottoming out.

Look at F1 cars before 1994, all the nice sparks when fully fueled on straights lap after lap.Since 1994 a wooden plank which is not allowed to be wear more then 1 mm has ended the time of low ride heights for formula one cars.

I agree, if you set suspension(ride height) way too low, the car should get damage, however NOT the suspension. And it will still take rather extreme bottom outs to get damage to the undertray espacially since such cars often have pads on the bottom to protect the car.

Increasing ride height does solve the problem, but irl nobody cares if the car bottoms out at such a corner. But we have to?.. nah not right. Well..ok in F1 they do because they get disqualified if that stupid plank wears too much.

Last edited by Bluebird B B, Sun, 3 Feb 2008 00:20.

100% agree!! +1 ! With the topic starter
I often just have to know i which gear the car is, because in many cars i can' t see the gear indicator.

Hello,
Today i was driving at so sprint rev 1 with the fox. I noticed the rear left suspension got damage but i did not hit anything to get big damage from.

The set i used, has average ride height, spings and dampers. Yet the suspension just cant handle the load

I attached a replay of it.

"Fern Bay could be some old but clean f1 track from the 60s with some bumps and something I'd like to call a "soul". If you like it, it likes you. Just stay away from the kerbs and you'll be okay."

There is a problem, you need to master the skill of going full throttle over the curbs in order to win leageu races. The one who is best at it will win, the rest of the track doesn' t matter, just make sure you can floor it over the curbs. What' s worse, i got a league race soon on fe green, bah its all about the chicane, what a playstation like feeling.

I agree with the topic starter, lfs has very few realistic tracks. Only a few aston configs and kv-national have a feeling of being possibly a real life track.
Well, its not really that bad, some configs of south-city could be real life street-tracks too.

Maybe next year there will be a new good track dreaming of..

Strange, i was today unable to reproduce the problem.

On purpose riding on the revlimiter. Top speed remained the same. hmm
If nobody else ever noticed the engine is weak, this thread can be deleted lol

Last edited by Bluebird B B, Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:43.

I noticed today the engine of the fox gets damaged to easily. Going on rev limit in 5th gear for a few sec, because it is faster sometimes, will quickly damage the engine. I think a real simple 2 liter (race) engine desigend to take abuse is a lot stronger irl; Or nearly impossible to destroy which a rev limiter set so low as with the fox.
Offcourse i adjusted my gear-changing, but it just don' t feel right.

For example, the nice small 2 liter engine of honda s2000, can rev much higher, is more powerfull and can take more abuse and will last over 100000 miles even abused now and then. When not abused/raced it will last over 200000 miles.(although the engine can be destroyed sooner, but it will be on purpose or real stupidy if you manage to eliminate an honda engine)

I did not really notice much difference with patch x of y, car has same character, look and feel to me.

I agree the car still feels underpowered. It is nearly impossible to spin this car with a good setup. 10-15 hp extra would be very nice.
Also drag may indeed a bit on the high side; compare it to real life big estate cars with about 190hp will al do about 230km/h on top. In fact i owned once one with only 165hp which got to 235km/h(on the speedo 245 but that is not true speed)

+1
Don' t need it myself, but can be very usefull for some people

No? Two examples of drivers at Nordschleife
Here you go
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwBJ8SHB42U

and
(jusy ignore the annoying music)
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=QiWQl4Eb_jM

Have fun

"ith what I have, power can be changed by poping the hood and turning a knob."
Power of the brake-assist system you mean. Not related to maximum brake-force a certain brake-system can deliver. But it might be impossible for a human being to use it with the brake-assist systems turned off.

So in effect, the knob can feel like turning down brake-power of your car(and making your car no longer legal on public road )

Quote from AndroidXP :

I was replying to wsinda...

oeps sorry

Quote from AndroidXP :

I don't know how far you take "under all circumstances", but generally I have to disagree with this statement.

1) You gain lots of consistency by making sure most corners don't require any special attention to the brakes. Besides that, it's also much less tiring/stressing to be able to just mash the brake with little risk of damage, which can play a big role for your mental performance in longer races.

2) You can greatly prolong the life of your tyres when you don't lock them up, or at least only very seldom.

3) The time lost by not using maximum brake force is minimal, compared to messing up the corner exit. It's better to consistently lose a tenth or two at a corner, than to get the corner right 80% of the time with the 20% screwups costing you seconds in the corner and on the following straight. Especially on public/medium level races consistency quickly pays off big time.

The only real negative thing weaker brakes do is putting you at a disadvantage in position fights. There it doesn't matter if you take the corner optimally - if the opponent can outbrake you, he has gained the position. Your more ideal corner entry won't help you there as he'll be in the way, denying you the line you'd normally take.

Point One, Point Two and Point Three: With these you are telling me you agree, that it is true that this brake-force settings is used as an abs system and is giving an unfair advantage. What is your point? You want to keep this settings? Although it takes away some(for me a lot) of the fun of racing?

With all circumstances i mean, nearly impossible or very bad driving with cold tyres is required to get lockups. Will never happen with regular drivers.


Tyre-life? Yes indeed you have to be carefull with the brakes when they are setup like real brakes. I don' t see a problem there, just dont lockup. Most likely you can do about 1 to 3 laps less on a set of tyres.


@wsinda
There are many fast drivers who use brake-settings so low, it is really not possible to lockup and turn-in braking is very easy. The timeloss of the extra brakedistance is minimal. Not seconds, but more like 0,2-0,3sec but it the advantage is much bigger: Cooler tyres, very easy and digital(brake-point always identical), turn-in easier.

Today i received a set for fbm with brakeforce set as low as 565nm and i though 700nm was already to weak and difficult to get lockups on.. Yet, people are incredably fast with it. Why, bumbs didnt affect them while braking. Also the track required braking while cornering a bit with car out of balance, with such low setting, this gets very easy. Just brake and on turn in keep braking, tyres wont lock anyway.

Last edited by Bluebird B B, Sun, 20 Jan 2008 21:57.